Showing posts with label moral argument. Show all posts
Showing posts with label moral argument. Show all posts

Monday, December 22, 2014

Ten Things Christians Should Keep in Mind When Debating Atheists Number One

Based on my recent post about trying to break my writer's block here's number one:

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Consequently, the burden of proof is on the theist rather than the atheist.

I've talked about this before and I don't really want a rehash of the same thoughts.  But, I want to revisit this idea to flesh-out how this really matters (or rather, how it doesn't).  What are the supposed extraordinary claims that the theist is supposedly making?  I can't speak for all the atheists who argue about this, but I assume that most of them are calling miracles "extraordinary claims."  Now, let's look at this.  Are miracles extraordinary claims?  Well, yes.  Of course they are, by definition a miracle is something extraordinary, but they're really only unexpected if there's no God.  If one takes a materialistic approach to philosophy, then a miracle cannot occur.  However, there's an important point missing from this whole conversation about miracles.  The very existence of anything whatsoever is a miracle in itself.  It's an ongoing miracle of creation.  I know, some theologians will balk at this, as the Genesis account implies that God is no longer creating.  Gen 2:1 says that the heavens and earth were completed and that God had "completed His work."  So, where do I come off saying that existence itself is a miracle?  Well, Col 1:17 Paul talks about how, in Christ all things hold together.  In this paradigm a miracle is not surprising at all.  Hebrews 1:3 has an even more active phrasing about how God holds everything together by His power.  So, the God who holds everything together can, by His mere willpower, suspend, cancel, or defy His own control over the entire universe.  Miracles are not nature behaving wrong or differently than it normally does or should.  It's God doing His will contrary to what we think or what we expect.

Also, as I commented before, which is a bigger miracle: A) The universe, for no reason with no cause exists, or B) God made the universe out of nothing?  Again, toss aside materialism for a minute.  If you a priori take materialism to be true then of course the theistic answer sounds extraordinary.  But at face-value the A) choice is obviously much more extraordinary.  I have seen arguments, most notably from Hawking, that attempt to use science to say that because of the laws of physics the universe must exist.  I don't even pretend to understand his scientific arguments, but have read some interesting things online that summarize Hawking and other prominent scientists' claims, and I've got to say, "I'm not buying it."  First off, every time I hear these types of arguments I hear a redefining of the word "nothing."  Now I understand that in certain contexts nothing can mean different things.  For example, one might ask, "What's up with you lately?"  To which you might answer, "Oh, nothing."  Does that mean the same as deGrasse Tyson's use of "nothing" which apparently means some type of quantum field in flux?  Obviously not.  But, these are the types of things I see when I discuss the beginnings of the universe with a materialist.  There was something (called nothing) and it exploded and became something else.  I pointed at Big Bang cosmology as an argument for God with an atheist one time and after going around and around, this interlocutor ended up admitting that the Big Band was true, but we don't know what happened before the Big Bang.  It's funny though, this particular atheist refused to accept that it might have been God. Basically reduced to saying, "We don't know and likely will never know what caused the Big Bang, but I refuse to accept that it could have been God."  If you give me a just-so story and make all your pieces fit together by inventing facts and theories that have never been shown to work in reality and only really work in some outrageous mathematical formula, all of which you cannot explain in terms that any regular person could follow or would accept, I have every right to dismiss your claim as extraordinary.  I have a saying I've been using for a while now (not sure if I've used it in my blogging before, if so I apologize for repeating myself), "Any claim made without evidence, can be dismissed without argument."  These are indeed extraordinary claims, but for sure the more extraordinary is the one that defies definition, explanation, and reason.

Lastly, I want to comment on the final part of the statement, "the burden of proof is on the theist rather than the atheist."  Now, I know I'm only an amateur philosopher, but my knee-jerk reaction is, "So what?"  I, as a theist, have no qualms with making a case.  In general, yes, I'm making a claim.  (I don't think we can completely let off the atheist, but the point still stands, I'm making a truth-claim.)  My claim is fairly simple to prove though, "I believe, with good reason, that God exists."  Throw that one out there and see if anyone can disprove it ... notice some important points before you attack it.  First, "I believe," with this important qualifier, no one, can ever prove my claim incorrect unless that person somehow has mind-reading capabilities, which apparently doesn't exist outside God.  One might attack the second portion, "with good reason."  Well, let's look into various reasons/arguments. There are so many!  I've already mentioned the cosmological argument.  Then there's various design/fine-tuning arguments.  There's the moral argument made popular by CS Lewis in his masterwork Mere Christianity.  And, there are many others, some based on evidence and some on philosophy.  But clearly, there are plenty of "good reasons" to believe.  If you don't accept my claim, then not only are you calling me an idiot who hasn't examined these arguments, but you're making the claim that the millions of other Christians throughout history have all done the same thing.  Now, don't get me wrong, I don't typically think an appeal to authority is a particularly compelling argument.  However, if the authority to whom I'm appealing is sprinkled with such intellectual greats as Plato/Socrates, Aquinas, Newton, and even many of the top ten highest measured IQ test scorers who are at the very least theists, some clearly Christians, I'm justified in making such an appeal.  So, tell me again how you, Mr. Internet Atheist, know that only stupid, backwoods, country-bumkin, redneck, low-brow, Bible-thumpers believe in God.

Sorry for the abundance of sarcasm, but it seems that Mr. Internet Atheist is getting to me.  He's been drinking the Dawkins koolaid and doesn't really have anything new to add to the conversation.  I am by no means creative or worthy to be called an innovator in this discussion, but at least I admit that I'm standing on the shoulders of giants.  I don't know very much, but I do know that I exist and that I have good reasons to believe what I believe.

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Sunday, December 21, 2014

Mere Moral Argument Part 2

Checkout this entry I submitted for the Christian Apologetics Alliance Newsletter:

Mere Moral Argument Part Two
The moral argument for God as laid out by C.S. Lewis in, Mere Christianity.
by: Samuel Ronicker November 2014

This is a continuation of a review of the book Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis.  Of course it is recommended that you read along in the text as we move on to book two; “What Christians Believe.”  Without further introduction let us examine the next section of this great text.

Chapter six; The Rival Conceptions of God

Lewis continues his masterwork with a somewhat puzzling comment, “If you are a Christian you do not have to believe that all the other religions are simply wrong all through.”  Unfortunately, this is not a commonly held belief among many Christians.  Though it can be said of other religions as well, many seem to believe that they have a monopoly on the truth.  However, it is important that a Christian views other religions as wrong and that they are different from Christianity.  Here Lewis goes on to divide worldviews along the lines that are important in this ongoing discussion of the moral argument for God: the materialist vice the theist.  Then among theist views he divides those that believe god is somehow “beyond good and evil.”  The one that calls a cancer evil because it kills a man, but that person could just as easily say that a surgeon is evil because the surgeon kills the cancer.  In both the atheistic view and the pantheistic view, there really is no such thing as evil.  In the Christian view God is separate from creation and there are things in creation that work against God’s will.  Lewis finishes this chapter with a knock-down argument against any naturalist answer to the so-called “problem of evil.”

“My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust? If the whole show was bad and senseless from A to Z, so to speak, why did I, who was supposed to be part of the show, find myself in such violent reaction against it? A man feels wet when he falls into water, because man is not a water animal: a fish would not feel wet. Of course I could have given up my idea of justice by saying it was nothing but a private idea of my own. But if I did that, then my argument against God collapsed too–for the argument depended on saying that the world was really unjust, not simply that it did not happen to please my fancies.”

Chapter seven; The Invasion

Lewis takes this chapter to discuss two types of invasion, one of over-simplified Christianity.  Just as atheism is too simple in leaving so much out and having no explanation for too many things so too is watered-down Christianity.  This is a type of Christianity that “simply says there is a good God in Heaven and everything is all right--leaving out all the difficult and terrible doctrines about sin and hell and the devil, and the redemption.  Both these are boys’ philosophies.”  The goal is not simplicity; religion is never simple.  The world is not simple, why would we expect relationship to God to be simple?  Even a “simple” child’s prayer is not truly simple.  It’s enemies of Christianity that often set up this simple version in order to tear it down.

To read the full article click here:

Picture credit here

Monday, December 15, 2014

Mere Moral Argument

Checkout this entry I submitted for the Christian Apologetics Alliance Newsletter:

Mere Moral Argument
The moral argument for God as lain out by C.S. Lewis in, Mere Christianity.
by: Samuel Ronicker September 2014

This article will seek to set out the moral argument for God as C. S. Lewis presents it in the first “book” of his momentous work, Mere Christianity.  This text was first published in 1952 partly based on a series of radio lectures given from 1942 to 1944.  If you have never read it, you should add it to your reading list; it is considered by many to be one of the best apologetics works of the 20th century. Lewis’ style is powerful as he lays out an argument that points to the existence of God based on moral intuition.  Lewis was famous as an atheist who set out to disprove Christianity and ended up, as he describes his conversion in Surprised by Joy: “In … 1929 I gave in, and admitted that God was God … perhaps the most dejected and reluctant convert in all England.”  In order to cover as much of this work as possible this article will attempt to summarize each chapter of the first section in order, future editions of the Christian Apologetics Alliance newsletter will feature expositions of the rest of the text.  Also of note, because there are multiple editions page numbers will not be referenced rather chapter and section headings only as they haven’t changed much through the different revisions.  Without further introduction:

Book One; Right and Wrong as a Clue to the Meaning of the Universe
Chapter One; The Law of Human Nature

This section contains the foundation for the rest of the arguments throughout the text.  Without a Law of Human Nature any dispute is empty.  Lewis uses the example of two people quarreling, and when two people argue, they generally do not dismiss the other person’s standards.  They actually agree on a standard that there is such a thing as right behavior.  In the typical quarrel, each person attempts to justify his or her actions within an accepted moral standard.  As Lewis puts it:
It looks, in fact, very much as if both parties had in mind some kind of Law or Rule of fair play or decent behaviour or morality or whatever you like to call it, about which they really agreed. And they have. If they had not, they might, of course, fight like animals, but they could not quarrel in the human sense of the word. Quarreling means trying to show that the other man is in the wrong. And there would be no sense in trying to do that unless you and he had some sort of agreement as to what Right and Wrong are; just as there would be no sense in saying that a footballer had committed a foul unless there was some agreement about the rules of football.
So, if there’s no such thing as right, then there’s also no such thing as wrong.  Though this law is not like the Laws of Nature (i.e. gravity).  One important difference is that humans can disobey this law.  There can be exceptions to the Law of Human nature, just as there are occasionally people who are colorblind or tone-deaf.  Lewis handles one important objection right away here.  Some skeptics claim that morality is totally different in different cultures, but this is missing an important point.  Just because there are differences, does not dismiss that all cultures have a sense of right and wrong.  The clearest example is in this simple quote, “Men have differed as to whether you should have one wife or four. But they have always agreed that you must not simply have any woman you liked.”

To read the full article click here:

Picture credit here